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CHEN2017

wanna tips on dating with western guy

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Hey, This is a Chinese.

I want to share my story here and would like to get some tips about dating with western guy.

I grew up in China. But I like knowing new ideas and new culture. I think everyone should be same, at least at very beginning, but We are shaped by our culture, family, background,  experience......they made us different, also limited our thinking which we called habitual thinking or conventional thinking. when I am lost in my culture, the new culture just like fresh air, helps me know myself better.  That's why i like western guy. I met few guys in China, and i wanted to be with someone, but there is always no good ending. I don't have those common Chinese girl's problems, and i cannot say i have no any other problems.  Now I am quite confused by the western culture and dating. 

To my own experience and examples from my western friends. Very few foreigners have serious relationship here. Most come here only for short time, study or work. i can understand that they don't  have long-term planning here. but why they would keep fun with other girls though they have GF or stable sex friend. Sometimes, It is very hard to judge what is right or wrong.  There is a reason behind every behavior. I am confused, because some of them are not play-boy, still it happens. 

that's right western people have stronger personality. I can understand they need more private time. but sometimes the idea of "ME" is too strong i feel.  Girls only can be a passer-by in his life. 

Dating is complicated. Dating with another culture is much more complicated.  everything seems so easy to start, and so easy to be finished and forgotten. 

Would like to know your ideas "What makes a relationship a serious one?"

 

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"What makes a relationship a serious one?"

Easy - time!

Firstly, understand that relationships all over the world have issues and problems due to culture. You obviously do, but don't yet get just what those differences are when it comes to 'western' men. And, that's partly because you've already created this box called 'western', into which all non-Asian or African men (people) fall into... instead of realising that Americans are different to Spaniards, who are different to Venzualans who are are different to Australians...

Secondly, although this will be a generalisation, I think it fits you at least... many Chinese girls have this idea that every boyfriend (if they're hetero) will be their last boyfriend, and that's the guy they will marry. Many of us who come from other cultures do not think like this. and that's where the time comes in.

A Chinese girl might start thinking a relationship is 'serious' (meaning, leading to marriage) in a MUCH shorter time period than the non-Chinese guy... and, if she starts getting like this (aka 'clingy') then the guy is quite likely going to walk away. And, what could have been a long-term serious relationship has just ended early because of this presumption. In general, most non-Chinese don't start even considering marriage until the couple has been a 'real' couple for at least 6 months (and, that's still a very short time). Many won't even consider the 'M' word for at least 2 years (of living together...which is usually about a year after dating/bf/gf).

And, don't forget the other huge issue when getting involved with a Chinese girl - she doesn't come alone (most of the time). A guy never marries just the girl - he's got her family to contend with as well. And this is a HUGE deal breaker to many guys! (granted, it's a deal-breaker for Chinese as well, as I'm sure we've all heard tales of the mother (usually) who tells their child that the person they're dating isn't good enough and that they need to break up with them...If I was with a girl like that, I'd break up with her!!! ).

Also, another basic generalisation... many Chinese girls (and also girls/women in many other countries) see sex as something directly connected to emotions and intimacy... which leads to significance. Many guys don't. Sex is something that is (hopefully) a good feeling, but doesn't actually mean anything other than just a good time. So, if you have a girl who thinks having sex means being in a serious relationship, and the guy doesn't, then you'll have problems.

You mention guys who are here for only a short time... then the logical question is - why date them if you're after something longer term. Either you're willing to end the relationship when it's time for him to go... or your hoping he changes his mind for you. Obviously, such things do work out, and some couples will try to make it work (and even get married, and even are happy afterwards). But, statistically, it's not likely to happen. And... if you actually are after something long term, is it really a smart idea to hope it will go that way? Even bigger question - are you willing to deal with the emotional consequences if it doesn't?

 

Perhaps one last consideration. I think non-Chinese guys here are after 'the one' to marry. They'd like to think that the girl they're marrying is the perfect (within a certain definition) girl for him. I think, however, that many Chinese girls aren't after Mr Right, but will take Mr Good Enough. There's this deep, ingrained idea that they need to be married (before turning 30), and that it will be all love and roses and romance... sorry, relationships are rarely like that. So, it's more important for the girl to be married, than who she's married to. Personally, I think that's a sucky way to be!

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Hi, Sainthood, thank you for attention. Really appreciate your comments. It gave me some key points. and helped me organize my thoughts.

Here are some information I want to add.

Firstly, I had been reading this forum for a long time. Then left for a while. I forgot my old account and password. I applied a new one recently. So I noticed the dating topic between Chinese and Non-Chinese were like a history topic. Too many discussions here. I definitely agree with you. and that's right I don't have a lot understanding of the difference of “western”.  But you also create a “BOX” on Chinese girl. I am not a Strict Buddhist. But I spent a lot time on self-development these years. I am doing meditation, studying Buddhist philosophy, spiritual enlightenment relates stuffs. Just I am not to very high level yet. I have a lot work to do in life. Here let’s just forget the marriage/family issues for a while.

 

Second, about Serious relation. So finally there is something same for us that “serious” meaning leading to marriage. However, I think there is another very important point, it also means loyalty. Here is my own experience: the guy is from Germany, a very good guy. We met, had good feeling. Although I knew he would leave, I chose to enjoy fun in the moment. We had good time until one day I noticed long hair in his flat. We had really frank talk then. He said, he will leave, so he cannot have serious relation here. Doesn't want to handle the hard separating. Means he cannot be serious to me, but also will not be serious to her. and we really had very good time. To him, I am very unique to his experience. But I am one part of his life, he also has other parts of life. He need social world. So when he meets another good girl or better than me. Then things happen not on his purpose. Even we can forget this time, he cannot give me any loyalty promise in future.

What is the logic? This is confused me. because for me it is simple, it is ok he will leave one day, but if sex with me, then only me.(we both enjoyed our sex, it is the main reason that keep us for a long time)

The key point is not short time or longer term. I saw this also happened on the guys who will stay here for longer time. like you said it takes time to go into serious. Before go into serious, they will hang out with other girls too, sometimes sex happens uncontrolled. I think for a good man, sex is not only a good feeling, they will not sex with someone they don't like.

So here is my confusion. I can understand the human nature. But from a female perspective, how should I do. Should I ignore all the loyalty things before go into serious. it is really mean. Or maybe because he is not that into me, then waiting until one man completely into me. How does a relationship work out?

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Hi Chen,

For westerners, being loyal, or monogamous, IS a very serious step. We have this concept of fun, casual relationships where it's ok to sleep with many different people. So then how does a relationship turn serious? Well, you will just know when you meet the right person. You will not want to sleep with anyone else.

Your German friend maybe did like you a lot. But he knew he was leaving China after awhile and he didn't want your relationship to get any deeper. So he kept things casual, sleeping with other girls etc. so that it wouldn't hurt so much when he left.

 

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If he is single and sex is a good time for you both, enjoy it. If it gets real and serious, he will generally be more loyal than chinese guys (I never thought I would meet so much cheaters here). 

 

We usually are very frank, if he says you are not in a relationship with him, it means you can't monitor him or ask him for loyalty, and the same applies for you...  Usually for us, the rules are the same for both, he won't be angry if you date other guys.

 

Relationship is supposed to be something good for both, if you stalk him, for sure he will quit, you are not even his girlfriend and you already feel like a wife.

 

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"For westerners, being loyal, or monogamous, IS a very serious step."

I disagree. I think that really comes down to the sort of person one is.

I would say, for the majority of people, that once one is in a 'relationship' (even one as simple as 'boyfriend/girlfriend') then the idea of loyalty is usually implicit - or at least, expected... even if the relationship isn't particularly 'serious' (ie, expecting to lead to marriage or permanence). That's why we have different words for various levels of relationships... from one-night stands, to casual sex, to FWB, to 'dating'.., to bf.gf, to... partners, fiance and spouse.

I, personally, don't think that 'boyfriend/girlfriend' is 'serious'... these come and go. And breaking up from this stage is hurtful, but not particularly devastating (like long-term partners, spouses, etc).

 

@Chen - yes, I generalised. But, if one doesn't use generalisations, then most questions become pointless, as they're always case by case basis. However, it is true that the majority of Chinese girls intend to be married by the time they're 30. (and, frankly, the ones that don't care about this are MUCH better to be with!!!)

Humans like to complicate things. They also have great difficulty in accepting responsibility (and the consequences of their actions). They also tend not to change -  unless they are given a big/good enough reason to do so - a reason that is usually unique to that individual (what's important enough for me will not be important enough for you). People would rather die than change (look at smokers... and habitual cheaters). Often it takes hitting rock bottom.  However, It's also true that many people completely misjudge what's truly important to them - and are willing to draw lines in the sand far too often (contrary to what seems to be popular opinion now, this phrase refers to the idea that the line will quickly be washed away - not one that actually means much) .

It's also difficult (and usually futile) to try to change someone into something that you want - the person in your head. People usually resent this, and it will lead to a break-up, or at the very least, resentment and hostility (usually over something else).

People also fear letting go. Breaking up. The possibility of being 'alone' (ie, not getting any). They tolerate behaviours that they would tell other people not to accept. Fear of loss and separation (and emotion). They're ALWAYS much worse when going through it. And, as we all know, we DO come through it, and get on with our lives.

 

You're being unhappy with his disloyalty is NOT his rock bottom... If he's going to be leaving soon, you have virtually no chance of expecting him to be monogamous with you. If you have accepted it (forgiven), it also suggests that your line in the sand was washed away, and you've capitulated for comfort's sake (do you want loyalty, or do you want him?)

I'm going to take a stab here, and suggest that if you want 'serious', then you'll also want someone who is 'spiritual'. Someone who at least understands where you're coming from with regards to life. (I'm reminded of a girl who recently expressed unhappiness with her good-looking boyfriend - and I made the point that it only takes a few months of intense gym-work to get a great body, but getting a great personality is MUCH more difficult!)

The other thing you need to consider is, again, time. Many guys will be 'loyal' to their girlfriend from a fairly short period of time (but, be aware that it may mean a break-up not long after). Loyalty does NOT equal serious (in the sense that all issues need to be 'fixed' rather than just ending it). These things are usually not discussed... humans think this complicates things, or makes them responsible... it doesn't!

But, what YOU really NEED to do is sort out your priorities! What is REALLY important to you?

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thanks, sainthood, your talk is awesome.

thank you too, canuck_in_hz   christopher.pacheco    Slythe

I could understand now, and know what is REALLY important to me. 

:)......

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Hey Chen.... chant some Buddhist prayers for me..... I enjoy the serene sounds. Spent some time trekking in Nepal and went to the Everest base Camp... There's a great monastery in Tengboche... very high... close to 4,000 meters and when you hear all those chants ... you forget about all the worldy craziness...boyfriends girlfriends... blab blab blab....

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8 hours ago, didim said:

Hey Chen.... chant some Buddhist prayers for me..... I enjoy the serene sounds. Spent some time trekking in Nepal and went to the Everest base Camp... There's a great monastery in Tengboche... very high... close to 4,000 meters and when you hear all those chants ... you forget about all the worldy craziness...boyfriends girlfriends... blab blab blab....

Hi didim, trekking in Nepal and went to the Everest base Camp----it is really awesome.

It is a pity that i cannot chant any Buddhist prayers. 

(My meditation teacher is very good at it. I like the chants too. but they are in Sanskrit. Too difficult to understand and pronounce) :D

i belive that people will forget all wordy craziness when they hear those chants on 4,000 meters moutain. but just temporary.

When they back to their life, all pain gets back. we cannot resist pain or sadness like we cannot stop night coming. 

So boyfriends girlfriends problems cannot be avoided too. :chuckle:

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I feel like a lot of Westerners make some really big generalisations about what Westerners are looking for in relationships and what their attitudes are towards dating a marriage.

canuck_in_hz said "For westerners, being loyal, or monogamous, IS a very serious step. We have this concept of fun, casual relationships where it's ok to sleep with many different people."

I think this is a stereotype. It may canuck_in_hz 's attitude to relationships, but I don't think it is representative of the West. Yes there are many people in the West who choose to engage in this kind of behaviour, but it's not like everyone is like this, or even the majority. Furthermore, there are plenty of people who do engage in these types of relationships who would be open to trying the more traditional kind of relationship often stereotyped as "Chinese", just as there are many people coming from more traditional concepts of relationship who would be open to experimenting with this more casual dating culture.

Speaking from personal experience (and I think this would resonate with a lot of foreigners in China), I would really like to have a serious, loyal, monogamous relationship leading to marriage, but the fact is that I, like most of the foreigners in China are just passing through. We are only here for a short period of time - which means its very difficult to actually be serious about relationships. You know that after relatively short period of time, its not going to be possible for you to be together with this person. So you don't invest in the relationship. And if you do, you will most likely be heartbroken when the time comes for you to leave. I think this is the main reason why many foreigners are driven to seek out causal relationships while in China - its not so much cultural as it is is practical. Foreigners like everyone else want companionship and affection, but the only reasonable way that they can get that given time constraints is to be casual about it.

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On 2017/12/15 at 4:21 PM, displayname said:

I feel like a lot of Westerners make some really big generalisations about what Westerners are looking for in relationships and what their attitudes are towards dating a marriage.

canuck_in_hz said "For westerners, being loyal, or monogamous, IS a very serious step. We have this concept of fun, casual relationships where it's ok to sleep with many different people."

I think this is a stereotype. It may canuck_in_hz 's attitude to relationships, but I don't think it is representative of the West. Yes there are many people in the West who choose to engage in this kind of behaviour, but it's not like everyone is like this, or even the majority. Furthermore, there are plenty of people who do engage in these types of relationships who would be open to trying the more traditional kind of relationship often stereotyped as "Chinese", just as there are many people coming from more traditional concepts of relationship who would be open to experimenting with this more casual dating culture.

Speaking from personal experience (and I think this would resonate with a lot of foreigners in China), I would really like to have a serious, loyal, monogamous relationship leading to marriage, but the fact is that I, like most of the foreigners in China are just passing through. We are only here for a short period of time - which means its very difficult to actually be serious about relationships. You know that after relatively short period of time, its not going to be possible for you to be together with this person. So you don't invest in the relationship. And if you do, you will most likely be heartbroken when the time comes for you to leave. I think this is the main reason why many foreigners are driven to seek out causal relationships while in China - its not so much cultural as it is is practical. Foreigners like everyone else want companionship and affection, but the only reasonable way that they can get that given time constraints is to be casual about it.

Hi, Thank you for attention on  such old post. :) while think dating topic is never getting old.  I am thinking recently,  how much our happiness should depend on another person?. Even for those people who seem have very happy marriage, is their life really complete by finding a soul mate? Or how long this kind happiness can be last? 

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